Worried

I need to say something that I’ve been scared  to voice:

I’m afraid that Barack Obama is going to be assassinated.

I’m hoping that by saying that it means it isn’t going to come true.  This isn’t necessarily something that I truly believe is going to happen, but I worry about it.  Really worry. 

Mom, do you remember ages ago, I think when Clinton was still president, when we were sitting around the dinner table talking about Colin Powell potentially running for president?  You said that you really liked him, but you hoped he wouldn’t run because you were afraid that some racist would kill him.  I can’t get that conversation out of my head.  I can’t even believe that I still remember it, but here I am.

I was especially struck by this yesterday because I spent some time reading the comments at a Sarah Palin support site.  They scared me.  Not because there were outright threats or even outright racism, but because those people are delusional.  They were posting all these comments about Obama being a terrorist (WTF?), not being an American citizen (Really.  Have y’all heard this ludicrous idea that he was actually born in Kenya to a different father?  It’s so bizarre and ridiculous), that he’s some communist Manchurian Candidate who’s going to rule this country like he’s Stalin…it’s scary.  The worst are the people who believe that Obama winning would be an insult to their “Christian” God.   They believe that God doesn’t want Obama to win and if he does it is somehow are perversion of his will?  (I seriously don’t understand these people…if they believe that everything is God’s will, then wouldn’t that show them that God wanted Obama to win?)

I’m scared that ultra-conservatives are able to justify anything in order to put their cause forward.  And to defend their cause. 

And these aren’t even the people who hate him just because he’s a black man.  At least their hatred is predictable.  I’m still worried about what they will do, but they don’t scare me like the ultra-conservatives.

Y’all calm me down.

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54 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Ezra on October 29, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Yeah, someone forwarded me an email yesterday that was filled with “quotes” that were never actually said on a show that Obama wasn’t actually on. And you did see how they arrested a couple of white supremacists who were plotting to assassinate him. It is, unfortunately, a reasonable fear.

    But I think it is a mistake to label them as ultra-conservative. They are ultra-religious, ultra-radical, and ultra-intolerant. But the Republican party stopped being “conservative” about 12 years ago. Classical conservatives don’t attack first, they don’t increase governmental power, and they do separate church and state. The terms conservative and liberal are not supposed to be a part of either party, they are supposed to be part of individual ideology.

    I am most offended by a man proclaiming to be an American war hero who then promotes the spreading of lies that hurt not only a man, but an entire country. There is no place for the kind of lies that have been told about Obama. I have said it in the past, but I truly believe that the only rational logic behind casting a vote for McCain is racism. And that isn’t very rational or logical. He offers no policies that have potential to improve the country, only policies that will keep the country where it is. Everyone is afraid of the “change” that Obama rallies around, but it isn’t change for change sake. It is change that is trying to improve our lives. McCain doesn’t offer leadership for the future because four years ago he decided to worry more about his legacy than his country.

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  2. It’s a scary thing and something that worries me. I can totally see some of those extremists taking a shot at him and that’s a frightening prospect.

    Heaven forbid anybody go against their version of normal eh?

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  3. I am really disappointed that you would say that Ezra. I am not a racist and am deeply offended that you just called me one. There are MANY rational reasons for voting for McCain. Just because you do not agree with what he has in mind for America does not mean there are no rational reasons for voting for him. I have many reasons (including abortion issues such as I don’t want MY tax dollars funding abortion, he has foreign policy experience, etc) for voting for McCain. Shame on you for believing that just because people don’t agree with you, that makes them irrational or racist.

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  4. Posted by Josh on October 29, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Ezra –

    “I am most offended by a man proclaiming to be an American war hero who then promotes the spreading of lies that hurt not only a man, but an entire country.”

    I’m assuming you are referring to McCain. I challenge you to state ONE lie that McCain has said regarding Obama. Just one… that should be easy. I’ll be waiting…

    “I have said it in the past, but I truly believe that the only rational logic behind casting a vote for McCain is racism.”

    Seriously? You really believe that? Are you calling 50% (which will be close to the percentage of the population that vote for McCain) of the country racist? If you truly believe that, then you are more ignorant and blind to the idea of critically thinking than I could possibly ever understand. A statement like that speaks volumes about your intelligence.

    “Everyone is afraid of the “change” that Obama rallies around, but it isn’t change for change sake. It is change that is trying to improve our lives.”

    Name one new thought/idea of change that Obama offers. This is an earnest request. Of these ideas of “change” that you are able to come up with (if there are any), name ONE that people are afraid of. Again, this should be pretty easy given your statement…

    I hear of nothing but “change” and “hope” from this man, but those are just words. Real change and hope are the result of new and progressive ideas and can only be realized through strong leadership. I’ve heard nothing but the same policies that the Democratic party has been preaching for the last decade. Do you honestly believe that Barack Obama has more leadership qualities than John McCain? What has Obama done that makes you think he is a great leader? Our military churns out leaders by the hour. I’m fairly certain John McCain learned more about leadership in his education at the Naval Academy that most people could ever hope to learn in their entire lives.

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  5. Posted by Josh on October 29, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    People wanting to assassinate the president is not a new idea. It’s happened during Bush’s term (it’s probably happened during every presidential term). An attempt was made at the assassination of Reagan (he was shot in ’81).

    Fortunately, our intelligence agencies are pretty good at finding these people long before anything happens.

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  6. Posted by Ezra on October 29, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    First, I said it was my opinion that there is no other rational reason to vote for McCain. And just to put it out there, John McCain will never touch abortion or gay marriage. Those are empty promises he is making on the campaign trail. But it is my opinion. Part of that is because I have been supporting Obama for almost two years. My then-wife and I were in charge of Birmingham’s group of people who organized the trip that Obama made to Selma. We have done voter registration (legally). We have hosted events. I have made phone calls and donated money. And every time I hear a reason to vote for McCain it seems like a reason that is based on, “I just don’t like Obama.” That is honestly what 90% of the people I talk to say after they give me a few reasons for why they are voting for McCain. And when they give those reasons I am able to tell them the truth about both policies, then they say they just don’t like him. Well I don’t dislike either of them. I have met them both. I have shaken their hands. I’ve been in McCain’s office. And I believe that Obama will do a better job.

    A lie… we can start with one simple lie that isn’t incendiary. McCain says Obama is against new nuclear power plants. That is a blatant lie. Obama wants nuclear power as long as there is a place for the waste to go. McCain always talks about how they use nuclear on Navy ships, but the reactor in a ship is a far different beast than the reactor in power plants. It kind of like saying I grew a tomato in my backyard, so obviously there is no problem covering an entire state with tomato vines. That is about the level of difference between a ship reactor and a power-plant reactor.

    A new policy… Well, Obama’s take on health care is a new policy. It is new because it bridges the gap between traditional democrat ideas of “universal” health care and republican ideas. By the way, those democrat ideas were actually stolen by Hillary from Nixon. He was a republican, right? And please read his policy before you start telling me why it isn’t new. It is. And if you think for a second that it’s socialized medicine, then you’re ignorant about what socialized medicine is. How about a policy of civil discourse with people before we invade them. His goes beyond any previous policy, and it allows people to use their brain as a muscle instead of their guns. And then he isn’t afraid to use guns if the other people demonstrate that they have no brain. Both of those are things that people are afraid of. Most of the people who are afraid of those proposed changes are afraid because they do not have all the information about the policies they refer to. McCain says he go have a cigar with Castro. Well that isn’t true, it is a way of scaring people.

    And if you don’t think the McCain campaign is racist, then I guess you haven’t gotten a robocall from a guy speaking in Ebonics like I have. The call is meant to incite racist feelings against Obama, and it’s paid for by McCain.

    “The question in this election is not “Are you better off than you were four years ago?” We know the answer to that. The real question is, “Will this country be better off four years from now?””

    That is an Obama quote. Do you really think that John McCain will make your life better by continuing wars, not lowering taxes (he just wants the bush tax cuts permanent, he doesn’t really have a plan to help people beyond that), and cutting all the funding to government programs that provide for education? So more dead soldiers, the same economy, and more stupid people. Awesome.

    If you don’t agree with those statement, that’s fine. This is my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. I hope that you go out and vote for whoever you believe in. My vote won’t really count in my state, but I’m going to vote anyway. And if McCain wins, then we’ll be okay. As long as he doesn’t have to hand the keys over to his VP. Then we would get sucked into hell.

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  7. Josh,

    (And play nice…this is my blog and you’re calling my friend names)

    Lie: McCain said that Obama supported teaching sex ed to young children in an ad
    Truth: Obama supported the education of young children about sexual abuse and how to react to and report that abuse

    Lie: “Obama will raise your taxes” Which he has been hollering in all of his speeches.
    Truth: If you make less than $250K, you taxes will be lower under Obama than they are under Bush. And, for that matter, than they would be under McCain’s plan. Unless every single person at McCain rallies is making more than that (which I’m certain of), it’s a lie.

    Lie: McCain: ACORN “is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.”
    Truth: You’ve got to be kidding me. A few isolated incidents of fradulent voter REGISTRATION is not voter fraud, and it certainly isn’t destroying democracy. What a joke!

    More lies (Factcheck.org is your friend!)
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/unethical.html
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/not_coming_clean_on_coal.html
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/guilt_and_associations.html

    These could go on and on. I’m not saying that Obama hasn’t spread a few lies about McCain, but what McCain and Palin have said that is untrue is STAGGERING

    Thank you for the stirring political discussion, guys!

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  8. Oh, and Josh-

    You do realize that McCain graduated at the BOTTOM of his class in the Academy, don’t you? That’s hardly something positive to bring up about him.

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  9. Posted by Josh on October 29, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    1) What does John McCain want to do with gay marriage that is different from Obama’s stance. Neither Obama or Biden want to legalize gay marriage (they’ve both said that).

    2) I would need a reference for your statement that McCain has said Obama is against nuclear power to see it in context. From the research I’ve done, I’ve read that Obama has said that he’s “not a nuclear energy proponent.” If you don’t provide sources or exact quotes, I’m going to have a hard time believing you.

    3) Obama’s policy on healthcare is not new. I also don’t think the idea of diplomacy is new either… pretty sure that’s been around awhile. Some people just don’t use it.

    4) What phone call are you talking about? Surely something like this would have received press.

    5) Government programs that provide for education are a waste!

    6) What was wrong with the economy prior to the housing collapse that was cause by the Democrats? My salary was steadily going up every year.

    Why are you so full of hate? Why do you use such negative terms to describe McCain and Palin? You’ve never heard language like that from me about Obama or Biden. Why would we get sucked into hell if Palin took over? I don’t get it…

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  10. Taylor, you really can’t blame Josh for being defensive when he (and I) were called racist.

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  11. Posted by Josh on October 29, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    Your friend called me racist… I fail to see the difference.

    I don’t know enough about the sex ed for kindergardeners to comment.

    We’ve had the tax conversation here before. And if you make over 250k your taxes will be higher, so I fail to see how that’s a lie

    Lie: McCain: ACORN “is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.”
    Truth: You’ve got to be kidding me. A few isolated incidents of fradulent voter REGISTRATION is not voter fraud, and it certainly isn’t destroying democracy. What a joke!

    It was not a few isolated incidents, it was pretty widespread. He never said voter fraud… simply fraud. That can be found in the quote you provided. You are right, voter registration FRAUD is not voter fraud… however, it is STEP 1 to achieving voter FRAUD. And his opinion that voter fraud MAY BE destroying the fabric of democracy can under not terms be called a lie.

    McCain did graduate near the bottom (not the bottom) in his class. That is true. There are tons of great people who didn’t finish number 1 in their class.

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  12. And you are right Taylor. This could go on and on. No one here will change anyone else’s mind because we have all already made our decision. However, we all deserve to be respected for that decision. We do not deserve to be called racist or irrational.

    If you guys have formed your decision by looking at both sides, doing your research and making a decision based on what you believe will be best for this country, I respect that. That is exactly what I have done and I (and other McCain voters) also deserve that respect.

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  13. Posted by Ezra on October 29, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    About the nuclear comment, go to cnn.com and search for McCain’s closing argument. From there all of the questionable comments are highlighted and they’ll take you to the fact check page. You can do this for Obama as well.

    If you think I was calling you a racist, then maybe you’re feeling guilty. I just said it was my opinion about the rationale. I didn’t say you had to like it.

    The people who worked for ACORN were out of work people trying to make money. They got paid based on how many people they registered. So some of them tried to make some extra cash. Any allegation that it was related to one party or the other is ridiculous. Particularly since I don’t think anyone named Papa John’s is going to show up with an ID to vote. It was poor judgement on some people’s part, but it wasn’t partisan.

    Lot’s of ditch diggers graduated at the bottom of their class too. And I spent a summer as a ditch digger, so don’t say I’m being mean to the ditch diggers.

    Yes, I’ve had a lot of odd jobs growing up. I needed to buy a car.

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  14. “If you think I was calling you a racist, then maybe you’re feeling guilty. I just said it was my opinion about the rationale. I didn’t say you had to like it.”

    I don’t even understand what you are trying to say here. Why would we feel guilty? I am not sitting here calling you a moron for your beliefs because I respect that you have a different opinion. That is the beauty of our country. We can all have different beliefs.

    And to say that you can’t link ACORN to one party is absurd. Obama paid a subsidiary of ACORN $800,000. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html

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  15. Also Ezra, I promise you there are many great reasons to vote for McCain. The problem is, that no matter how much I list or explain these things to you, it won’t matter. That is really sad.

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  16. Posted by daddums on October 29, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Wow! A real political discussion. Let a geezer jump in here. While McCain was living it up in the Hanoi Hilton, I was slogging thru the rice paddies (well, sitting in an ammo dump (and they don’t call it a dump for nothing)). McCain is the only Republican for whom I might have voted. …Might have until he was overcome by election fever and turned his centrist rational statesman-like approach to government over to the mad-dog, kill the liberals, ultra-right, Limbaugh-worshiping Republican minority. Pit-Bull Palin is exhibit one. I might have voted for the old John, but I do not recognize this latest iteration.

    Back to Taylor’s original fear: Stress brings out the best and worst elements of people and society in general. Those whackos are the “lunatic fringe” who have always festered in our backwaters, but who now have a voice on the internet. They have always been there, but are simply “stirred up” by the 9-11, 8000 DOW, layoff/downsizing, $5 per gallon stress factor (i.e. your uncle Steve). They will slither back under their rocks after the election, and hopefully they are not members of the secret service.

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  17. Posted by Ezra on October 29, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    If you have reason’s to vote for McCain, rather than reasons to vote against Obama, then great for you. Most of the people I’ve talked to are voting against Obama rather than for McCain. And their rationale for being against him tends to be dubious at best.

    ACORN does a lot more than just register voters. They are a community outreach program that works with underprivileged areas. Lots of people give lots of money to ACORN. Giving money to a community service organization doesn’t mean they hired a guy to go look at the yellow pages and sign up businesses as voters. If everyone who gave money to ACORN was involved in voter fraud then I guess Bill Gates and The Ford Foundation are in trouble too. They both gave over a million.

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  18. Posted by Ezra on October 29, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    The dad of the bunch brings up a good point. McCain used to be a different man. Case in point, I did vote for him in the Alabama primary in 2000. I have yet to vote for a winner in a Presidential election. Maybe this will be lucky number 4.

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  19. I understand that you have talked to individuals that are only voting for McCain because they are afraid of Obama. I am terrified of him as well and I have my reasons. One of those reasons is the Freedom of Choice Act. That actually makes me sick to my stomach.

    However, don’t let those few people form your opinion of all McCain voters. I am not racist and I am sure that Josh is not either. The vast majority of us are not racist.

    And Taylor, I find it odd that you would reprimand Josh but not say a word to someone who has called some of your readers racist. I don’t understand that.

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  20. Daddums, just curious, what do you not like about Palin? I have heard so much negativity about Palin and I just want to know why.

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  21. Posted by daddums on October 29, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I think it’s the “wink”. Maybe it’s the fundamentalist in her. Then it could be the troupergate. But wait, there’s the way she says “Ameeerika” . OH yeah, there’s the convention speech : the difference between a pit bull and a …..” And there’s the “He had so little regard for America that he palled around with a terrorist” (or words to that effect. She is a proponent of the “Divided States of America” not the “United States of America”. She is not a statesman(woman/person), she is a politician. She is a cyborg assembeled in the feiry pits of Republican Hell from the rotten flesh of Rush Limbaugh, Carl Rove, and Richard Nixon, programmed by the ultra-right to spew vitreol and stir the wrath of the faithful.

    (and she’s hot)

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  22. HOLY CRAP! I just checked my email to find 15 new comments on one post. Y’all are moving to quickly for me!

    Becs (And Ezra),

    Actually, I was going to reprimand Ezra about that, but I only had 5 minutes until I had to catch my train to post that first response comment, and I didn’t have enough time to process everything.

    Ok, RE: The racism thing. Ez, you know I love you ever so much, and I almost always agree with you on everything, but I do think it’s a bit extreme to say that the only reason not to Vote for Obama is racism. I mean, there are actually a FEW black people out there who are going to vote republican, right?

    While I will say that I believe racism plays a very large part of it, there are people who are genuinely conservative and have genuine conservative-based reasons for voting for McCain and aren’t racist. Here are some of the reasons I think people would vote for McCain other than racism:
    1. Religiously-based beliefs that include things like Abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, evolution, abstinence-only education, etc.
    2. “Experience” (Though I don’t necessarily believe that length of time serving is any correlation to success, but McCain has been in govt. for a long time. People find comfort in this, I suppose.)
    3. Taxes- admittedly, if you are rich, you’d probably want to vote McCain because you want your money- I can buy that as a legitimate excuse.

    There are others, I’m sure. Now, do I believe that any of those reasons are good? Hell no! But I do believe they are legitimate and non-racist.

    Now, Daddy made a good point about the man that McCain used to be. And I think Ezra also made a good point about the fact that he ACTUALLY VOTED for McCain in 2000. I used to like McCain, too. I thought he was a man with conviction, a spine, and not someone willing to hitch himself to the right-wing just to get elected. Remember, this is a man who once chided the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells of the world and said his party should stay away from them.

    McCain used to be a man who deserved honor and respect, but he let his desire for power get away from him. I actually feel terrible for him, because you can see it in his eyes sometimes that he’s upset at the turn that he’s taking and he’s been forced to take in this election. That reaction that he had to the woman who called Obama an “Arab” was a big eye-opener for me. He was horrified.

    He’s almost like Benedict Arnold who came thisclose to dying a great, American hero when he was wounded during the Battle of Saratoga in 1777. If he had only died, his legacy would have been a great one. But he lived and went on to become one of the most notorious men in American history. If John McCain had only bowed out after 2000 with grace and conviction and gone back to serving as a noble senator, he would have a legacy people would honor.

    But, as it is, he’s ruined forever. When you have prominent, respected, loyal Republicans speaking out against John McCain for the nasty, slanderous, dangerous campaign he’s running, you know it’s bad.

    You know, it isn’t only us Democrats who think he’s done wrong…

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  23. Posted by sandie on October 29, 2008 at 7:27 pm

    Like I have said before, the debate on this blog is infinitely more interesting and insightful than any current political discussions currently available…well, other than John Stewart and Stephen Colbert. I’ll have to make my post later as Barach is now on TV…

    And, Daddums, why don’t you tell us how you REALLY feel about Sarah Palin?

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  24. Posted by Ezra on October 29, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    I do have a hot friend who is dressing as Palin for a Halloween party. So Palin must be at least somewhat hot if the hot girls are dressing as her.

    Taylor, I understand the experience argument. I don’t agree that his experience prepares him any more than Obama’s, but I get that point. But as far as taxes go and religion goes… McCain is being opposed by half of the richest people in America. Even the rich see through his economic policies. And if anyone knows economics, it’s the people who actually make money rather than passing policy about it. And McCain doesn’t vote with the religious right. He says he will for political gain, but he knows that none of that kind of legislation is going to make it to his level if he’s President. So it is a completely politically motivated stance on his part.

    Once again, I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I was stating how I feel about the people I know who are planning to vote for McCain. Even my grandmother, who is 82 and from the deep south, and who has never voted anything but democrat in her entire life, is unsure if she will vote for Obama. I have never thought of her as racist, but I know her well enough to know that the underlying problem for her is probably skin color. It is a problem because of the time period she was raised in. And it’s sad.

    But, don’t worry, Taylor, I think I guilted her into an Obama vote earlier tonight.

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  25. Taylor- Sorry I sort of jumped on you earlier. I do appreciate you standing up for our right to have a different opinion than you guys.

    Daddums- Even though I completely disagree with you, I definately appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on your stance. Thanks.

    Ezra-My biggest concern deals with abortion. I have very strong opinions on this subject and nothing can change my opinion on that. Obama may have some Catholic votes, but many Catholics are for McCain due to our fundamental beliefs on when life begins.

    I think at this point I am so exhausted from debating constantly about this election that I won’t do much more on this blog or any others. America is an amazing, strong country and no matter who is elected in 5 days, I will always be proud to be an American.

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  26. Posted by Ezra on October 30, 2008 at 2:34 am

    I recognize that abortion is the most important issue to you. The most important issue to me is education and health care.

    As a future physician, it is easy for me to see every day that the medical system is broken. And it isn’t just about who gets health care. It’s about the power that insurance and pharmaceutical companies wield. You have no idea how many necessary procedures there are that cost more (just for the drugs, not including the doctor’s time) than insurance companies reimburse. Health care professionals often can’t provide care even if they wanted to because an insurance loophole prevents them from administering aid. Our country has a lower infant mortality rate than all but one non-third-world country. And the biggest reason for this is because of the inability to provide health care to poor people who cannot afford it.

    As for education, it all starts there. We will never be able to continue as a great nation if we do not direct our efforts toward education as the single most important thing we can do. Currently, the Republicans have all but forgotten education, and their plans in the past have been terrible. Our economy, our health care, our military, even the quality of the air that we breathe, can be traced back to education. It has to be a priority. It is more important to our future than the economy, the war, or even our religions.

    If you are in Alabama I hope that you will be voting yes on Amendment 1, which will allow an increase in the “rainy-day” fund for education. Right now, Alabama has been hit extremely hard by bad book-keeping and poor money management on a state government level. This has resulted in extreme shortages for education. Please vote yes so that our state may someday get out of the bottom three in education.

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  27. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 6:33 am

    You’re right Ezra. You found me out. I’m racist. I’m feeling guilty that I don’t like half-black people. Happy now?

    Also, Ezra, surely you’re not trying to compare our failing public school system with the United States Naval Academy. I bet you do know tons of ditch diggers who graduated bottom (or even in the top) of their class. I also bet all of those went to public schools. I seriously doubt there has ever been a graduate of the Naval Academy who is digging ditches.

    Daddums, thank you for your service. I sincerely have the deepest respect for those who serve and have served. Having said that, I’ll still have to voice my opposition to some of your statements.

    “over to the mad-dog, kill the liberals, ultra-right, Limbaugh-worshiping Republican minority” – I think that statement is horribly unfair. Why are people on this blog (who are supporting Obama) so quick to break out the name-calling? Can you not discuss the issues with out adding demeaning adjectives to the names of everyone?

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  28. Posted by daddums on October 30, 2008 at 8:31 am

    The “mad-dog minority” represents a miniscule fraction of Republicans. I’m sure most Republicans are decent citizens. Unfortunately, the Rovians exert more control over “the party” and set the tone of the Republican dialog than the centrist Republicans. Where were you guys? We are citizens of the UNITED states. United we stand, devided we fall. We all need to prevent the extremists of either persuasion from taking control. I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings, but unless you have a statue of Rush on the dashboard of your car, I was not talking about you.

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  29. Haha Rush isn’t so bad. Now Hannity can even get on my nerves sometimes so I don’t listen/watch him very often. Rush definately has his off days, but he really isn’t that bad! 🙂

    I do agree with you when you say that we need to prevent the extremists on BOTH sides from taking control. There are definately some scary people out there.

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  30. I fear the same thing. A lot of people do. But I am sure they are going to assign super-duper security to him should he win. Go, Obama!!!!

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  31. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 11:52 am

    You did not hurt my feelings (I have very thick skin), I’m just shocked at the name calling that goes on here (along with the generalizations).

    I do enjoy Rush… he’s a very smart man and his show offers great political discussion. Are you referring to Karl Rove with your “Rovian” comment. What do you have against Karl Rove? Is he a part of the “mad-dog, kill the liberals, ultra-right.” He’s a very smart man who’s opinion may differ from yours… does that deserve name calling? Why can you not just debate the issues.

    Regarding your Palin comments:
    One of your arguments against her is the way she speaks? (“I think it’s the “wink”. …But wait, there’s the way she says “Ameeerika”… . OH yeah, there’s the convention speech : the difference between a pit bull and a… “)
    Are you seroius? This is coming from the side that think the right isn’t voting for Obama ’cause he’s black? Very nice.

    You also said,
    “She is not a statesman(woman/person), she is a politician. She is a cyborg assembeled in the feiry pits of Republican Hell from the rotten flesh of Rush Limbaugh, Carl Rove, and Richard Nixon, programmed by the ultra-right to spew vitreol and stir the wrath of the faithful.”

    Seriously… where do you come up with this stuff?

    So for your reasons of disliking Palin you list one legit reason (one that isn’t a slanderish opinion)… a single comment she made:
    “He had so little regard for America that he palled around with a terrorist”

    There is no denying the Obamam Ayers connection… we can debate the extent of their relationship or whether it even matters. Either way, the point is that when asked about your dislike for Palin that’s all you could come up with. I could write a book about why I don’t think Obama is the best choice for the presidency (without calling him a single name or referring to anyone else on the left). If you’re interested… let me know.

    Reply

  32. Posted by sandie on October 30, 2008 at 11:56 am

    I have been thinking a lot about the posts made on this blog…all of you have put forth intelligent, well-thought-out arguments for both of the candidates. There is obviously a very wide discrepancy about how people feel which is what makes America such a great country and what makes our democratic society work.

    In August of 2004 I was in a hotel room in Quebec City, Canada and the Democratic National Convention was on the television. The keynote speaker was some guy I had never heard of named Barack Obama…I found the name very amusing and was curious to see what this senator had to say.
    I sat without speaking a word and listened to his speech that night…I don’t think I had ever heard a more eloquent politician in my life (and I loved to hear Bill Clinton speak, no matter what he was speaking about). But the eloquence was one thing…what he had to say was another. (For those of you who did not hear that speech, check it out…it is worth listening to.)

    After the speech was over, I turned to my husband and said “that man is going to be President of the United States.”
    I did not think he would run for election this year but I am happy he did. I still think he will be President. And yes, Taylor, I am fearful for his life if he is elected.

    My opinion is that Barack Obama has a vision for American like no other policitican. I have read his books…I have read his plan…I have listened to him in speeches and in debates. I think he wants to bring real change in America about the way we all feel about our country. There is too much division–too much racism (and there are both democrats and republicans who are extreme racists; this is not a party issue), too much focus on greed, to much focus on “me, me, me”.
    I think Barack’s message is that he wants to lead the country out of this mind-set. I will admit that I think his vision is idealistic, but is that really wrong? To bring this country back to more brotherly love, more helping those less-fortunate than all of us that have posted on this blog? More neighbor-helping-neighbor than hatred of those different than you, whether that be race, religion, or political persuasions? It will be a long hard row to hoe but I think that is what Barack envisions. It will take all of us to make this happen but we need a leader who will serve as an example of what can happen. Barack Obama can do that given the opportunity and the support of the American people.

    I have a question to a previous post–what is so “terrifying” about Barack? That word conjures up all sort of mental images and if there is one thing that Barack Obama does not conjure up in my mind is the sense of being “terrified”. And yet, I hear that from many, many McCain supporters. Fill me in…what I am I missing here?

    Reply

  33. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Ezra… FYI:

    Merriam Webster lists the following as a definition of racism:
    2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

    I’ve not heard one person say they are not voting for Obama because he is half-black. Although, I’m sure that there are people out there who will do just that.

    However, I have heard (and read) numerous accounts of black people saying that the main reason they are voting for Obama is because he is black (half-black). Ergo, by deciding to vote for Obama because he is black, they discriminating against McCain based on race… that is, by definition, racism.

    Reply

  34. Josh-

    YOU HAVEN’T HEARD ANYONE SAY THEY AREN’T VOTING FOR OBAMA BECAUSE HE’S BLACK?!

    Holy crap…who are you talking to? I live in the most liberal of liberal places, Massachusetts!, and even I have heard my neighbors say they won’t vote for him because he’s black!

    I’m certain my parents can give you many, many examples of hearing that. Hell, there are a lot of people in my own family who I’ve heard say those very words (except not so nicely!). And these are people that I didn’t even KNOW were racist! I don’t know where you live, but it must be some kind of bastion of rational thinking! I want to go there!

    And to the response to the comments from my Dad: relax! You don’t know my father so you can’t hear that comment in his voice, but he’s a man who likes to joke. I thought those things were hilarious and when I read them to my boyfriend he roared with laughter. You have to know my dad to understand, I guess. I think he was probably trying to make levity of a scary situation.

    I think his statement about the way she speaks is huge! She has a difficult time strining a coherent sentence together unless she’s reading a script. It frightens me to think that she is so incapable of thinking on her feet. It shows a slow mind and a willingness to blurt out any words that come to her mind. I’ve yet to see her say something that is showing careful thought and consideration of the issues. She’s a great public speaker when she’s scripted- passionate, convincing, charming- but she’s bumbling and incoherent when she isn’t and that speaks volumes. It shows a immaturity of the mind.

    The “wink” was telling, also. Sure, it was adorable, but is that what we are looking for? What that said to me was, “I don’t have the gravitas to handle this situation. I think that my kicky personality and looks are going to get me through this.” Frankly, it was disrespectful of the situation that she was in. In her first major introduction to the public stage- her chance to show her statesmanship- she winks? It was a dishonor to the seriousness of this election.

    So here’s what my dad came up with: Palin isn’t showing the due seriousness and respect to the office and the situation; she has fundamentalist beliefs (and there is no denying that! She belives in witchcraft? I think that’s very legitimate and isn’t name calling at all); She’s already been involved in- and found guilty- of a ethics violation despite her short time in office; She presents herself a scrappy, down and dirty fighter (a “pit bull” if you will) when what we need now is a stable rudder and an able mind; She’s exagerrating Obama’s relationship with Ayers in a direct effort to label him a “terrorist” and question his patiotism. He’s explained his relationship honestly and precisely and it’s clear that it is almost non-existant. She’s LYING about Obama; By saying those things, she is intentionally inciting anger, fear, and defensiveness which is very dangerous in our current situation. And it’s divisive. She is a mouthpiece for the worst of the worst in Republican America: The fundamentalists, and she spouts the same dangerous, divisive, hateful rhetoric as the rest of them.

    Now, there’s an honest assesment of how I feel about her based on the lines my father laid out. No namecalling, no hatefulness.

    But I LOVE namecalling!

    I especially liked the cyborg comment! Funny, Daddy!

    Reply

  35. Sandie, I could list many, many reasons why I am scared of Obama. However, most of you guys would not find them reasons to be scared because you might agree with Obama (and that is totally fine).

    One of the main reasons I am scared of him is because of the Freedom of Choice Act. This act will make partial birth abortion legal again (which makes me sick). It will also make it possible for tax dollars to fund abortions. I have literally cried over that fact that my money may fund something that I find completely morally wrong and I will have no say in it.

    I am also afraid of how Obama keeps tossing around phrases like “spreading the wealth around” like this is a good idea. I cannot understand how anyone would think that spreading the wealth around or redistribution of wealth will be a positive thing.

    I don’t trust Obama. I believe he has absolutely no experience. I believe he is hiding behind “pretty” words. He started out saying that anyone making over $300,000 would not see a tax increase. Then it went to $250,000 then $200,000 and most recently Biden said $150,000. How can I trust that number won’t get down to $100,000 or even $50,000? I can’t.

    I am terrified that he will get in office and think that sitting down and talking to a leader of a country that wants to kill us will be the answer. It scares me that he thinks Iran is just a tiny country and is not a threat to us. Even France’s president has called Obama’s foreign policy “utterly immature.” That scares me.

    Reply

  36. Posted by sandie on October 30, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Becs, the issue on abortion is something that will be debated forever and will never be resolved. I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion. I have never had an abortion but I have close friends and family members who have. I have given birth to a beautiful daughter and it was the most wonderful day of my life. How we feel about abortion is not really the issue. This is a very, VERY personal issue in which government should have no say…how can anyone think they can put themselves into the shoes of a pregnant woman and feel what she is feeling, understand what her situation is, understand the gut-renching decision she must make to abort a fetus? For someone to assume that they can understand and make a judgment on the “wrongness” of the act is the most arrogant thing I can think of. I can assure you that every woman I know who has had an abortion is haunted by their decision every day of their life but IT WAS THEIR CHOICE given their circumstances at the time…this is a decision that has to be made by the woman…certainly not the Supreme Court justices.
    (I will, however, read about the Freedom of Choice Act as I am not familiar with the details of that…I am not sure what you mean about tax dollars “possibly” supporting this.)

    And like you said, I am firm in my belief…nothing that anyone could say could change my mind about this.

    And Taylor, I agree with you. I thought the Daddums post was hilarious and the folks who do not know him probably did not get the scarcasm of the joke. But, I must admit…I do KNOW your Dad!!

    Reply

  37. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    Yes, I’m saying, “I haven’t heard anyone say they’re not voting for Obama because he’s black”. I even followed that with, “I’m sure some people are”. I live in the south (not exactly known for racial tolerance) and I have not heard one person say that….

    “I think his statement about the way she speaks is huge! She has a difficult time strining a coherent sentence together unless she’s reading a script. ” – have you heard Uh-Uh-Uh-Uh’bama speak without a teleprompter… pretty frightening as well.

    Had your dad said what you said, I wouldn’t have picked it apart (as much). Sorry, it’s kinda hard to pick up on sarcasm in text… especially when the reasons he mentioned are reasons I’ve heard being used in earnest.

    Reply

  38. Becs,

    Perhaps you haven’t seen this much-passed-around-of-late quote by Palin:
    “And Alaska-we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs. … It’s to maximize benefits for Alaskans, not an individual company, not some multinational somewhere, but for Alaskans.”

    (emphasis mine) Sarah Palin supports “Socialism,” too!

    John McCain during at 2000 debate:

    YOUNG WOMAN: Why is it that someone like my father who goes to school for 13 years get penalized in a huge tax bracket because he’s a doctor?

    CANDIDATE: I think it’s to some degree because we feel, obviously, that wealthy people can afford more

    YW: Aren’t we getting closer and closer to , like, socialism and stuff?

    CANDIDATE: Here’s what I really believe, that when you are, reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.

    Even John McCain supports “socialism!”

    Your quote:
    “I cannot understand how anyone would think that spreading the wealth around or redistribution of wealth will be a positive thing”

    Better not vote for McCain/Palin, then!

    if you don’t agree with choice, then fine. I do hope you realize, though, that the Republican leadership (and I don’t mean individual republicans, I mean the party as a whole) will NEVER allow abortion to be outlawed. They know that people like you will turn out to vote as long as you think you’re electing a candidate who will try to outlaw abortion.

    Don’ t you think it’s odd that over all these years that Republicans have been promising to outlaw abortion, the’ve only whittled away at the law to uphold it? They’ve had the power to outlaw it before, and they haven’t done it. They NEED you to turn out and support them. They NEED you to get upset and riled up about it. If they outlaw it, people like you won’t have a reason to vote anymore. The republicans know this. They will exploit it for as long as it helps them get elected.

    And don’t you think that a candidate who believes in comprehensive sex-ed, medical support for pregnant women, and prevention of unwanted pregnancy will end up saving many more potential lives than one who wants to fund abstinence only education (which has been thoroughly proven to be ineffective, just ask Bistol Palin), discontinue benefits and support for prospective mothers, and doesn’t support family-planning policies?

    Here’s a fact: Abortion will NEVER EVER go away. Never. It has been around for as long as people have been having babies. Whether it is legal or not, people will continue to have them and people will continue to perform them. You need to accept this fact and start looking at ways to prevent the need for abortions. That is where the real answer to your problem lies.

    Reply

  39. I won’t get into the abortion debate. I understand why people believe that women should have a choice. (However, if laws were not passed because people would continue to do it, we would have no laws). Here’s a fact: Catholics (which I am) believe that life begins at conception. Therefore in my mind, abortion is murder. I see no difference in murdering a 5-year-old and murdering an unborn baby. How can I support that right to choose that if I believe it is murder? I just can’t. I believe a woman has the right to choose whether she wants to have sex or not. A baby is a consequence of that choice. That consequence should be dealt with not just gotten rid of. I also have an issue that the father of the child has no say in it. That baby is half his. How is it fair that it is just the woman’s choice when it was BOTH of their choices to have sex? I know you guys will not agree with me but that is how I see it.

    Partial birth abortion is another story altogether. The baby is pulled out and killed. That is inhumane. That baby can feel pain.

    And if you believe women have the right to choose abortion, you should also believe women can choose whether they want to fund abortions. That is what I am mostly upset about. If you can find a valid source telling me that is not in the Freedom of Choice Act, I beg you to tell me. I would be really, really happy to be wrong on that.

    Reply

  40. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    My political views are very conservative on two issues only: the economy (capitalism, privatizing social security, and so on) and the military. I consider myself a Libertarian.

    Outside of that, I’m very middle-of-the-road. I disagree with abortion, but I have no problem with gay marriage. I would have no problem legalizing drug use or gambling or prostitution. Basically, I don’t believe that it’s the governments job to protect people from themselves). Which is exactly what we have now…. That was just for background.

    In response to sandie’s question:

    I don’t necessarily fear the possibility of an Obama presidency. My support for McCain is primarily based upon the current threats the United States and the rest of the world are facing. We need someone who can guarantee that the United States remains THE super power and prevent potential world crisis. I don’t think this comes with Obama. Two big issues currently facing the world (in the short-to-long term) are China attacking Taiwan and Russia attacking its neighbors in an attempt to re-establish the Soviet Union.

    Critcal Thinking Exercise #1:

    Spend time thinking about this. Would China be more or less likely to attempt an overtaking of Taiwan (which is a U.S. ally and we would have to react) if Obama or McCain were president.

    Ditto for Russia and Georgia (or whatever former member of the Soviet Union) they go after.

    Reply

  41. Posted by sandie on October 30, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Y’all…we are leaving tomorrow for a vacation down to the Alabama Gulf Coast and we will not have internet access.
    I just want to say that I have been most inspired by the posts that been made on this blog in the past two days. I would love to sit down on my deck with all of you and continue this conversation over a few beers, a couple glasses of wine and some Mike and Ed’s barbeque. Let me know when y’all can all come down to Notasulga, AL.

    It gives me great hope in the future of America to see young folks (well… “young” in terms of how old I am) engage in an intelligent debate over the issues facing all Americans. While there were things said that some people agreed and disagreed with, the important point is that everyone continued the discussion and these types of discussions need to continue
    amongst the people of American if we ever hope to resolve many of our problems. I am very proud of all of you, especially Taylor for giving us the opportunity to express our opinions on her blog…(gee…I didn’t even know the meaning of that word one year ago…)

    If nothing else can be said about this election it has gotten the attention of the voters of America and perhaps the political apathy that has allowed a lot of our problems to develop is in the process of ending…at least I hope so.

    Reply

  42. Posted by Ezra on October 30, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    I must agree that i love reading and writing on Taylor’s blog. I’m usually just joking around if I make a harsh comment, as I am also a little bit sarcastic.

    But, as a murderer, how dare you inflict your personal sense of morality on me. In this world we know nothing of the lives of anyone but ourselves and those people whom we share our most intimate moments. You do not understand the pain that people feel over the hard decisions they often have to make. I think it is hilarious that the same people who talk about how all life is important also spend time on the stump giving reasons for why the death penalty is a good thing. Your beliefs are yours, your pope’s, and some members of your church’s. But they do not belong to all catholics, or even all catholic priests, as I know some of both who possess a greater sense of understanding and compassion than the people who would choose to violate the commandments and become a false idol as they pass judgment down on the rest of us. Adoption doesn’t work. For every adopted child there are dozens who are not. And if you believe a life without a family, or a life with a family who didn’t really want you, would have been okay; then you obviously have never been subjected to that life.

    I was just ranting there, and I know it will never change any minds. But that’s because it is an issue with no sense. There is no logic to it. It is presented as a black and white, right and wrong thing. But there is nothing important in life that is that simple.

    Reply

  43. Posted by Ezra on October 30, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    And to clarify, I wasn’t calling anyone a murderer. I read that and saw it might read that way. That isn’t how it should have been read.

    Reply

  44. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    You’re right… let’s just kill all the babies… I would never want to live if I wasn’t born into a healthy family environment. It’s a shame Obama wasn’t aborted, he was born to a single mother who obviously had a tough choice to make. If she’d had taken your advice, our world would be without it’s savior.
    (That was sarcasm and meant to be funny – I wouldn’t wish abortion on any of you, that is the most cowardly – yes cowardly – thing someone can do, not to mention inhumane. I’m glad each one of your parents – and Obama’s single mother – decided not to abort.)

    So let’s get this straight… you’re against capital punishment for someone who has taken the life of an innocent human being, but you have no problem SUCKING THE BRAIN out of baby, who’s innocence cannot be questioned, in a partial birth abortion.

    Ezra, I challenge you to respond logically to that! Seems a bit contradictory to me. Please show me what I’m missing.

    Reply

  45. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Ezra,

    I just realized that I made the assumption that you are against capital punishment. If you support capital punishment, please ignore the following post.

    Thanks

    Reply

  46. Posted by Josh on October 30, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    Josh did a really good job there so I don’t have much to add. I do have to say though that I do not agree with capital punishment but like Josh says, you really can’t compare the two.

    Also, Ezra, if you believe that women should have the right to choose whether nor not to have an abortion, shouldn’t we also be able to choose whether or not our tax dollars fund them? Well Obama doesn’t. That just isn’t right.

    Also, does it not bother you Ezra that you would have absolutely no say in whether your wife wanted an abortion? I am not saying she would do that. However, men have no say when it comes to abortions. If a woman wants one and a man doesn’t, too bad. I just don’t think that is right that a baby that is half the man’s could still have their fate decided by the mother.

    I know this may sound totally crazy, but I will always believe that a chance at life is better than death. Many amazing people have come from difficult childhoods. My parents were very, very poor while I was a child and I am SO glad they let me have a chance to live.

    And you are wrong about the Catholic church. The Catholic Church believes life begins at conception. Period. That doesn’t mean that a Catholic will never get an abortion, but it is a teaching of the church.

    Reply

  47. Posted by Ezra on October 30, 2008 at 9:54 pm

    First, I never said anything about any particular type of abortion. But in regard to partial-birth I will say this. First, politics has extremely little understanding of the actual medical procedure involved. You hear words and see pictures that are meant to frighten and anger you. Republicans, would like to completely criminalize partial-birth abortions. This means that even when a mother is in danger of dying if she went to term, they would choose the baby. This is a position of passing judgment on one life over another.

    When I was younger, probably up until about 22 years old, I was very much for the death penalty. As I grew older, and distanced myself from organized religion, I began to believe that it was wrong to kill a person for punishment. First, it isn’t really punishment, it’s sweeping a problem away. Punishment is prison. But more than that, it is very rare in the real world (not the world of CSI and Law & Order) that we can undeniably know that a person was the murderer. And what if he didn’t do it? Who are we to pass judgment on that person for whom the bible says will be forgiven? Why are we above that book that is most important to Christians when we are allowed to judge other people?

    Now, here is where I’m going to lose any sense of agreement from some of you. I do not agree that an embryo developing in a womb is a baby. Frankly, it is a parasite. It is a parasite that can develop into a freely living being, but before the embryo is viable on it’s own, it is not alive. It feeds off of the mother. It pulls the oxygen away from the hemoglobin the mother shares with it. It leeches nutrients from the mother’s food. If we are to say that unviable organism is a life that we cannot kill, then why are we able to kill the influenza virus in our bodies? You will say that isn’t a rational thought, and that is fine. But it is my opinion. An embryo is not scientifically alive until after it reaches a point of viability. Yes, it is science, not theology that I base this opinion on. But that doesn’t make my opinion any less viable than those who base theirs on theology. And just as I cannot go demand that single mother’s have an abortion, you cannot demand that they do not. It is their cross to bare. Your personal sense of what is right and wrong, and Christian or not Christian, extends to how you live your life. But it is perhaps the most un-Christian of acts to force your ideology on others.

    Taylor was the voice of reason when she said that this debate will never go away. There are people who take their stand on this issue based on faith, people who take their stand as a rejection of faith, and people who take their stand based on some personal reason. But, all of those people are entitled to their opinion.

    A final thought on the actual topic of Taylors blog entry, I wish we could spend more time talking about how we are afraid for Barack Obama’s life, because he is a human being who has been targeted for assassination, rather than fearing him for being alive.

    Reply

  48. I think Josh did make a good point about the assassination subject. Every president faces that fear when they are elected. However, we do have very strong intellegence agencies that will be working to protect anyone that is sworn into office.

    Ezra, I think the problem is you aren’t really seeing where I am coming from on the abortion issue. I am not “forcing my ideology” on anyone. If I were to say that I believed abortion was murder, but it was ok for someone to choose to do it, that would make me a complete hypocrite.

    When you say “Yes, it is science, not theology that I base this opinion on.” what science are you referring to? I am unaware of any science that says an unborn child is not a life.

    Also, what about the Freedom of Choice Act? I keep bringing it up to show that what Obama is wanting is not freedom of choice. I should have the freedom to choose whether I want my money funding abortion or not. Do you disagree?

    Reply

  49. Posted by Josh on October 31, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Ezra, I agree mostly with your stance on the death penalty. I think I would unconditionally support it IF it could be proven that its a deterrent to someone committing murder. But, I don’t think that’s the case. I do believe, however, that there are numerous cases where there is no doubt to the guilt of the accused (Charles Manson, BTK killer, John Lee Malvo, and so on to name a few). I support it in these instances, but there is no way to quantify certainty in guilt, so that goes out the window…

    Do you support partial birth abortion?

    Description of Partial Birth Abortion from http://www.abortionfacts.com (It’s consistent with every description I’ve ever read)

    – These are done after 4 or 5 months.
    – 80% of babies are normal.
    – Most babies are viable.

    This is like a breech delivery. The entire infant is delivered except the head. A scissors is jammed into the base of the skull. A tube is inserted into the skull, and the brain is sucked out. The now-dead infant is pulled out.

    “There are no medical circumstances in which a partial-birth abortion is the only safe alternative. We take care of pregnant women who are very sick, and babies who are very sick, and we never perform partial-birth abortions. . . . There are plenty of alternatives. . . . This is clearly a procedure no obstetrician needs to do.” F. Boehm, Dr. OB, Vanderbilt U. Med. The Washington Times

    Reply

  50. Posted by Josh on October 31, 2008 at 9:10 am

    Ok, if you want to get back on topic. No one should be afraid that Barack will be assassinated. The Secret Service is very good at what it does and will prevent any threat on his life. As an example of this… consider how many people HATE President Bush. There are just as many wackos on the left who would want to kill Bush as there are wackos on the right who would want to kill Obama.

    With as much hatred as there is for Bush, he’s survived speaking in some of the most hostile environments (the middle east, in particular). If he can make it through the past 8 years without any serious attempts on his life, Barack (who’s gonna be popular ’cause he’s gonna save the world) should have no problem.

    Please quit over re-acting to this one isolated event. I would stake bet everything I own that Barack will not be assassinated. No worries at all. Calm down people.

    Reply

  51. Posted by Ezra on October 31, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    Partial birth abortions are a pretty bad thing. But I can’t say there is no circumstance where it would be necessary, and no competent doctor would say that either. There are absolutely no absolutes in life.

    But you are pushing your ideology on people because you say that because you believe it’s murder that everyone else should have to live that way too. Even though the majority of people believes in the right to choose, anti-abortion rights people still push this on the rest of the world.

    And I don’t think the secret service has been that pressed to protect Bush. We liberals are pretty timid. Most of us don’t know what a gun looks like. Basically, we’re wimps. It’s why our democrat congress can’t get anything done. Wimps. Afraid of their own shadows.

    Reply

  52. Posted by Josh on November 1, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Ezra, thanks for the response. I have a couple of questions for you.

    Why do you not like partial birth abortion? What is it about that process that makes you think partial birth abortions, “are a pretty bad thing”?

    You feel that if abortions were made illegal, it would be the pro-lifers pushing their ideology on the pro-choicers. Obama supports a plan that allow taxes to fund abortions. How is that not Obama forcing his ideology on me?

    And, I agree 100% were your assessment of liberals (wimps). That’s one more reason for me to not support Obama. We don’t need a wimp as a leader of the free world.

    Reply

  53. Wait, wait, wait…

    Y’all are objecting to taxes funding abortions because you say it is “Obama forcing his ideology on me?” Um, welcome to Democracy!

    We don’t get to choose what our taxes pay for- that’s a given. You think there aren’t millions of people who object to their tax dollars being used to murder innocent children in the middle east? You think there aren’t millions of people out there who object to their tax dollars going towards destroying the environment?

    Hell, I am MORALLY against teaching abstinence-only sex ed. I am MORALLY against the death penalty. Where do you think that money comes from?

    That’s a joke for you to say that it is somehow Obama’s fault for the way our democracy works. Well, it isn’t.

    Newsflash: IF YOU DON’T AGREE WITH ABORTION DON’T HAVE ONE. You have NO RIGHT to say to anyone that they can’t have one. I’m not saying that someone can’t have a baby if they want one, why should you say that someone else has to?

    Reply

  54. Posted by Becs on November 2, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Your argument against tax dollars funding abortions is that tax dollars already go toward things you don’t agree with? That is a pretty weak argument. So since that is already happening, why not add something else?

    So if there is a majority vote to make abortions illegal, that would be “democracy” as well. But you guys will argue and say that’s not right or fair. You guys want the best of both worlds. You want to be able to choose whether or not to have an abortion and also FORCE those that disagree with it to fund it. That is NOT being pro-choice.

    Newsflash: If you want abortion to be an option, that is fine. You (or Obama) have NO RIGHT to FORCE me to fund it. Yes, there are things that I believe should not be funded by our tax dollars. Why don’t we find solutions to that, not just keep adding new things that taxes fund?

    It is not Obama’s fault that democracy works that way. However, it is HIS FAULT that he is planning on passing a bill that will provide the opportunity to use tax dollars to fund abortions as well as legalize partial-birth abortions.

    McCain doesn’t even want to make abortions illegal. And if he did, well that would be democracy too. However, he wants to return that decision to the states. McCain is still giving women the right to choose, but that just isn’t enough. You guys want to force those that disagree to also fund it. I can’t even see how you can begin to argue for that being remotely fair.

    Reply

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